Mon 14 Jan 2008
An open letter to Richard Branson, Avonline, and Virgin Media
Posted by laurei under TotalFair
[45] Comments
Dear Sir,
I am an installation engineer for Virgin Media, employed by the contractor . As installation engineers, we are obviously the face of Virgin Media to our customers, but too many times we arrive at their houses late, and rushed, we don’t always install everything the customer has ordered, we don’t install cables or equipment in the places the customer would like them, and the quality of our work is often substandard. Some things we install we know won’t ever work, some services that were originally in the house will stop working, but are forced to leave customers anyway. We do the bare minimum of tasks we are set, we can’t afford to do any more, we can’t afford to smooth over or fix (the many) mistakes of sales and operations teams or computer systems, and we ignore serious billing/service (even fraud) problems that are large (but not in our immediate scope of work). As a result, Virgin Media suffers great losses due to logistical error, wastage, and as a result of liquidated damages where customers are severely jilted (eg. after waiting 3 weeks for essential services they are often told they have to wait 3 more weeks or they can’t have what they were promised at all). It is not because we don’t care (although people who care are chewed up and spat out by managers), it’s not because we aren’t penalized (because we are penalized with fines on QC failures), It is not because we are lazy (we do this every day for up to 13 hours a day 6 or 7 days a week without lunch breaks), It’s not because we are cowboys (we are trained telecommunications and data engineers): It is because I and thousands of my colleagues are forced tounrealistic schedules and contradictory, crippling operating procedures.
Burned out engineers Burn Virgin
Virgin Media obviously is in fierce competition with the likes of Sky and BT. On the front line and feeling the most pressure of this competition is undoubtedly the engineer. The engineer in Virgin Media is surely the lowest common denominator, filling the gap between the company’s resources and the customer expectations with none other than his personal time. The pressure an engineer will face (as I will explain) does not stop until well after he is burned out, and when he is burned out and fails, the consequences are released onto the customer. Customers who are used to being right, being treated well, getting what they deserve and more than that getting what they want are becoming increasingly unnerved with the low quality of our installation service. This affects Virgin the company as a whole. I am writing to you to alert or remind you to the real state of the company on the ground level and to give you practical examples of our every day installations so that somehow you may take or authorise action to protect our engineers, and as a result the company as a whole. This letter will expose the actions and practices of some people as unprofessional, illegal, and immoral, but although most have no choice but to behave in a manner dictated by their conditions, some do and should be held to account. I realise this may have negative implications on my career, but as you will discover, I have nothing to lose, and I see no alternative. Something must be said, heard, and done to preserve those affected, and the name of Virgin.
Conditions are getting worse
Since August 06, working out of at least 4 franchises I have covered most of Surry, Hampshire, and south London installing the NTL/Telewest/Virgin Media brand product to thousands of customers. Not many have complained about my work or had course to – yet; but still keeping a somewhat professional nature has come at a great personal cost, and it is waning. I am losing the will to go on as the mediator between a ruthless profiteering company and their consumer (a mostly desperate and angry person forcing me to bargain between my liberty and my conscience for their service). I don’t get home some nights until 11pm, most nights it’s 8 as to please my customers, finish my allotted (unchosen) jobs and to pick up an extra job as a scrap extra than my 12,600 gross sterling. That’s six days a week, 12 hours a day for about 4 quid per hour (less than the minimum wage) on the naïve assumption I will not suffer consequential losses, that I am not fined and that am payed correctly.
Another squeeze on an already tight industry.
The beginning of the worst for engineers came around November 2006 when Avonline, NTL:T’s No 1 contractor acquired 4 new NTL:T Franchised areas and traded one out, therefore gaining hundreds more employees and ending up with 7 different pay structures for them (which were protected from systematic change under TUPE Laws). Around December, an Avonline manager displayed a short, simple power-point presentation speculating on a new employee contract which would start in the next year; this contract blatantly ignored TUPE laws, any employee input, and was designed to take money straight from employee’s pockets, and back into Avonline’s. This contract was never bartered for or formally agreed by the staff, most defiantly never signed for – everyone wondered how they could do it legally. On the 14th of January 2007 the mostly Virgin portion of Avonline’s c600 employees started to receive letters confirming that Avonline had (in fact 2 weeks prior) stubbornly and controversially changed all 7 contracts for their acquired and new employees to their own newly contrived version. Avonline have not looked back, reviewed, or releasing any hint of regard to throwing the lives of its employees into this resulting turmoil.
The muffled, gagged reaction; has it met Virgin’s ears?
Because the Avonline employee contract (as I will explain in depth) was so different than any previous model, it has taken some time for most engineers to realise they are a lot worse off than before, but it is apparent that almost every engineer is working longer hours than ever – for less pay, and effectively dramatically less rights. As a result I have never in my life seen an unhappier group of employees, and I personally have never been unhappier in my job for such a long time. People can only take so much; there is a time in each individual when they will crack. Sometimes they will quit, sometimes they will make a big mistake, sometimes they will just give up, sometimes they will take it out on the company and cause damage in a big way, either slowly and covertly through their practices or explosively and simply. It would take a dull person to see no evidence of this spectrum of reaction; since January I estimate that 2/3rd of Avonline’s workforce has changed, and in some franchises up to a half. There have been protests, strikes, and constructive resignation like never before. Most of my line managers positions have been replaced twice, and some are still unfilled after months. The cable-tel industry is liquid, and bottomless; the industry is in such a state that an honest person is too stretched to stay honest and make a decent living. The worst I see is to come…
Things don’t even look like they are getting better for the industry as a whole: recently Cobra Installations, Virgin’s second rated contractor decided to take on a more ‘Avonline’ approach and change its wage structure to a similar one, and it is only a matter of time before the industry will effectively be a new one. One would assume this industry overhaul is a by-product of the European floodgates opening up cable-tels to cheap labour like the other industries such as construction. It may be right for a stone cold, results driven construction industry but it is not right for such a consumer facing industry as Virgin Media. This will not go down well as an excuse to the British public when the service they receive is downgraded dramatically. The gap is going to widen and things are only going to get harder.
Avonline PLC, who are trying to manage their fledgling national operations from their head office in Bristol, are on paper Virgin’s 1st rated contractor but (as I will explain) these ratings mean nothing in real terms; the rising tide of consequence is against their loose, unprofessional practice; it seems like it is only a matter of time before it all falls through. Union revolt, if not the Law may soon bring them to their knees, toppling them over and bringing Virgin Media down with them. Failing that, any resulting scandal will tarnish Virgin’s perceived brand ethos.
The perceived responsibility for all of the above through the legacy of the NTL:Telewest is still Virgin Media. Although though it is not Virgin directly employing us, the Virgin logo is written all over us? Is the resulting dissatisfaction meeting Virgins ears from employees and customers alike? Are Virgin’s hands tied because of the signed contract? If so, or in any case I believe that Taking on NTL:T will be Virgin’s hardest battle because of its reliance upon contractors like Avonline.
Avonline’s new contract and its conditions: The crux of the issue
At a glance the Avonline contract is essentially:To use the guise of performance remuneration as a loophole to consistently pay less than the national minimum wage to workers working more than the hours normally legally allowed by putting the worker into a position of negating his own rights and securities to make a sustainable income, AND to keep his services by blocking his escape route through imposed lifestyle conditions such as, lack of training and recognition (leading to career backsliding), lack of time (to look for other opportunities) and lack of disposable income (to support resignation, study, or and full time job seeking). The standard Avonline engineers base wage is 10,000 gross sterling per year (minus expenses, tools and fines) plus a 50 pound per week attendance bonus, which is lost if all rostered days are not attended. After working for Avonline for over 1 year there is a bonus 2k.
- A day sick will cause that loss of 50 pounds on top of lost wages
- An engineer earns 10 pounds for every address (not task) he completes above 30 in a week (this equates to over 6 per day in a 5 day week).
The (forced) Avonline employee contract states that employees are to be rostered into a 5 day week but in reality most franchises have no such roster. Realistically it is very rare to get the option of 5 day week, because the black practises of managers effectively forcing attendance (eg. last time I took a 5 day week I was forced to spend 2 hours of my ‘rostered’ day off returning my van and 2 hours on the next day to collect my van which was not needed or used in my absence. This is a normal spite induced penalty for having the 6th week day off) Avonline are trying to operate on too little staff. To add insult to injury the extra forced days or hours a
48 Hour working week forced opt out
The 48 hour working week law exists to protect employees from being overworked and for flexibility they can choose to opt out of the 48 hour working week. Most that opt out do so to earn more money through overtime, time + ½ and double time pay. Not so with Avonline! Avonline have written into the new forced contract that in no way will the hours that we work to complete normal duties constitute overtime. To actually be accepted to work for Avonline, employees are forced to opt out of the 48 hour working week law. In average I and most other employees work 72 hours per week. Personally I would work overtime in normal circumstances, to make extra money, but then since there is theovertime clause, employees seeking to make a decent wage from “normal duties” are forced to working much longer hours than before.
08/2007 : Celebrating a year of lost lunch times.
Under law, it is up to the employee to take time off for lunch in his normal work day, however the pressure to complete routed jobs, and the low remuneration forces engineers to skip lunch on most days in order to complete the 6-12 routed (unchosen) jobs. In my whole time I have been working for Avonline I have never seen any employee take more than 15min for an already rare lunch break.
Tools and equipment at own expense
All personal tools are obtained at the engineer’s expense, any personal or company equipment (maps, keys, tools etc.) Lost or stolen (the job is extremely fast paced and covers great distances so it happens a lot) are recoverable at the engineers expense, all wear and tear on personal tools is at the engineers expense. The typical engineer’s personal kit at any time is worth about 500 pounds and is taken from wages on a payment plan from the time of issue.
A consequence of the systematic address based remuneration.
After waking up at 5 leaving a modest 30min for breakfast/preparation and driving from home for up to an hour, arriving at the yard at 6:30, waiting in line to receive a route for 10min, calculating required stores for 10min, waiting in line to receive stores for 10min, at 7 driving perhaps an hour to the first job the engineer is expected to arrive at 8am (or faces a fine). To make 10 pounds above the base (below minimum) wage that day the engineer is expected to complete 7 addresses per day, that is not jobs, that is addresses. Engineers are paid a set fee for each address completed, there is no accounting for:
- The amount of tasks in the address (eg telephone, broadband, V or V+ or VIPackage etc.)
- The size of the job (eg. the amount or length of cabling, height of cables)
- The time it takes to complete each task.
- The time it takes to travel (eg. route considerations traffic)
- The weather conditions.
- Time lost to failure of equipment issued.
- Time lost due to accounting, sales or operation errors.
Some argue that some address tasks are small but this is ignorant because the average address will realistically take 45min to 2 hours to complete. One particular trend with VIP now is to bundle 4 jobs into one work order, so the tasks at one address (1/10th of a day’s workload) could be:
Typical address
- Travel to area (up to 1 hr).
- Find correct telephone exchange (up to 1 hr if bad directions and mux label).
- Open exchange, testing for flammable gases (5min or 30min without keys).
- Find correct pairs in telephone exchange and connect (up to 30min because the wires may not be labelled and test trips to cabinet are necessary).
- Travel to address (up to 10min).
- Find correct cabinet on foot (up to 30 mins if bad directions or cab label).
- Open cabinet, testing for flammable gases (5min or 30min without keys).
- Find correct cables in cabinet (up to 15min if cables aren’t labelled).
- Connect, and label telco and cat-v (5min).
- Discuss job and cable routing with customer (up to 15min if customer refuses or needs to discuss with / wait for customers partner to come home)
- Swap V Box for V+ box, therefore disabling the broadband from the V box (10min).
- Because broadband is no longer in v box the broadband will need to be completely reinstalled discuss job and cable routing with customer (up to 15min if customer refuses or needs to discuss with / wait for partner to come home).
- Install fresh cable and points for broadband in the location of the customers PC (up to 1hr if a 3 story flat).
- Install (Fresh cable and points) the original V box in a different area in the house, usually upstairs (up to 1 hr).
- Wait for V+ and V Box to be hit successfully, doing diagnostics tests (up to 40 mins if box hit is delayed)
- Educate the customer about on how to use their broadband, and V+ (up to 30 mins if customer is slow or stubborn.)
IF all goes perfectly well this address (worth 1/6th of the day’s base pay) will take 1 hour, usually 2½ hours, but as explained, things will rarely be that straightforward, and can take over 8 hours to complete one job. We are expected to continue with our typical day and return home between 6:30pm and 11pm.
Favour & forced failure.
Avonline as a company are in charge of routing engineers so that the workload and distance travelled is shared equally amongst all engineers, routes are assembled with the engineers name at the top. However, by the time a route gets from the logistics offices down to the engineer, his particular route can look a lot different than it started. Managers put their hands in and change routes around before printing them out to give favoured engineers a better run, and can force unfavoured ones to a harder, less productive day and consequently failure. Most times when I receive a route it is cut and pasted like a scrap book with another’s name printed on them and scribbled out – in fact I have only ever had a route with my name on it once. Because of the way the pay is structured; managers playing with routes can consequently make or break an engineer’s day, week or in the long-term: career. An engineer with a favourable route can end up with twice the pay of an engineer with an unfavourable route while working half as hard. This opens up managers on one hand to bribes for easy routes and on the other hand gives them the ability to force the failure of an engineer through giving him an unrealistic workload, thereby opening up the opportunity to terminate, or blackmail the engineer to his own ends.
Big area – too bad!
The general rule is that managers should route engineers close to their home so that travelling familiarly and getting back home is easier. More often than not I find that I have been routed with jobs that are nowhere near my area, that I am not familiar with and are almost an hour apart on the road, while other engineers are routed with jobs around the corner from other jobs and their (and my) homes, there is no justification for this, and makes one look bad compared to another engineer.
Big jobs – too bad!
If on a Monday an engineer is only routed with 1 all-day job (a realistic scenario) then he then only has 4 days to complete 34 jobs before he can make extra money above his 10k (minus expenses, tools and fines). Any idea that an engineer can make a fair wage and produce quality simultaneously is blatantly ignorant, unfounded.
Not enough work – too bad!
There are times when there is not even theoption to make money after writing off the day, donning the uniform, and making the effort to turn up. Most franchises call crews every morning to confirm verbally that the crew is able to make it in; however, most days there are some crews who are called in but are not routed with work. In this case they may be simply sent home again without pay, be sent to help another crew, or be sent on unmeasured work, thereby working on the base, less than minimum wage with no chance for performance “bonuses”.
Unmeasured set tasks
The whole Avonline contract revolves around a very systematic reward scheme for measured productivity per address, however Avonline, per franchise employ only 2 supervisors, 1 stores person, and sometimes (but not in all cases) a manager (who if is present, is rarely seen in the field). When things go wrong on jobs, when the site gets messy, and indeed for any extra need that may arise, as they do often; it is extremely rare for a supervisor or a stores person to have the time or inclination to take on these jobs themselves. Usually crews are sent out on these jobs which are not measured, not part of the contract, and most definitely wholly illegal because minimum wage is not met. In some franchises a whole crew is dedicated full time (for whatever that means) to special needs. These crews are known as “the special needs crew”, and usually the freshest recruits get this label. I was in special needs crew for at least 6 months. If questions are raised about wages, the standard answer is that the “crew is on day rate”, but there is no day rate as such, just a retainer of 30-50 pounds for around 13 hours work in a day with by default no chance to earn more in the day. Managers do not usually put their hand in and tweak wages for unmeasured tasks but sometimes as an incentive to the engineer to travel or do favours he will promise to pay the engineer an arbitrary amount. Sometimes those promises form the basis of whole days of work or even multiple days, promises that are often forgotten, against company policy, and not backed up in writing.
No accounting for housekeeping
If an engineer returns home between 6:30 and 11pm, it does not leave much time for rest and sometimes the situation breaks the law, but there is more: at night is the only time an engineer can do his paperwork, which can take another 20mins otherwise he won’t get paid, there is also drill batteries to recharge and other ‘housekeeping’, which if the engineer is too tired to do before retiring will seriously hamper the next day’s work. Once a week the engineer must wash, clean, and audit his van which takes around half an hour – half an hour he does not have given the circumstances. There are also crew meetings in the mornings which take an hour sometimes. They are also factored into timeslots or wages, therefore are not rewarded for.
Damage claw backs.
Due to lack of equipment, time constraints, and sometimes bad luck accidents and damage can happen inside a customer’s property. By contract; any damage to customer’s property through negligence is recovered from the engineer’s wages, however the word negligence to Avonline encompasses all accidents. I have personally known Avonline to take damages relating to unavoidable accidents from my wages without disciplinary procedures or recourse.
Alleged road traffic offences
If Avonline receives an alleged road traffic offence, their policy is that it is not worth the time or the money to fight it. Avonline will pay the fine (sometimes late incurring a higher fee) and assume responsibility without even notifying the driver of the existence of the fine until after it is paid. Then the employee is notified that the cost of the fine and a 20 pound administration charge will be taken directly from their wages. The employee has no authority to contest to the issuing body. These and other wage deductions are illegal.
RTA’s
Avonline re-charge Employees for ANY damage caused to vans where fault is of the driver or unknown persons.
Compromises to safety due to time restraints.
- Speeding is a staple for most engineers because of time restraints, the most productive in the league tables equate to the most aggressive on the road.
- Talking on mobile phones whilst driving is essential to saving precious time through multitasking.
- Hands free kits are generally not supplied to engineers, if they are they are a hard to use cable type rather than a blue tooth connection, hence are seldom used by the engineers.
- Virgin media operations, dispatch, and T,P&R all now require use of touch tone buttons, rendering hands free kits useless for engineers whilst driving anyway.
- There are some days where there is either no chance to use a toilet or access to a customer’s toilet is not an option. Because of time restraints and pressures the travel of sometimes up to an hour to the depot is not an option, urinating into bottles is a common practice amongst engineers. If caught the engineer faces embarrassment and possible disciplinary action.
- Health and safety legislation states that an untrained person may not go above 2m height when working, yet all engineers are issued with triple ladders reaching at least 6m, not all engineers are trained yet not all engineers know of the law, and even the ones that do realize that sometimes it can save a lot of time rather than to re-route a cable at a low height. If the engineer chooses not to go above 2m to tidy cables, he runs the risk of failing the job and incurring fines. If a person is injured working at heights without training Avonline’s stance is to fight as hard as possible to deny compensation to the injured employee because the have been ‘told’ not to.
- Testing for flammable gases is taught in training but is rarely used by engineers because of time.
- Although Employees are issued with a van for company use, Avonline’s policy that the Van is never to be involved in personal use, any use of van for personal reasons is subject to disciplinary action and may cost him his job. Avonline’s policy is also to deny any claim of injury arising from unauthorised passengers in the event of an accident. This may sound easy to comply to on paper, but in practise this rule is almost impossible to keep, and the pressure puts employees at great risks eg. even if an employee has worked all of his spare time, and this makes it grossly uneconomical, un-strategic, even un-logical, to return home to collect his own car, he would have to do so before collecting a dependant on the way home.
INTERACTING WITH Avonline
Unavailability of tools.
Because the ordering and stores in Avonline are so grossly disorganized: If an item of an engineers kit gets lost or stolen, an engineer can expect to go without that equipment for up to 3 months, despite how fervently it is requested from management and stores. To work without proper tools is dangerous, damaging to Virgin’s network, time consuming and most frustratingly: avoidable by having a spare in stores. To get an idea of how time consuming, dangerous and costly missing equipment is, here are some examples:
- The humble toning amp: without this tool it can take up 1½ hours of guesswork to locate which up to 500 available telephone cables belongs to an installation customer. With around 4 telco installations per day this has serious effects on an engineer’s pay packet, reputation and finishing time. I experienced this situation first hand and was powerless to change it for 3 months because the orders I frequently placed were never passed on.
- Without cab keys, access to the roadside cabinets (therefore most jobs) could not be completed. Many times crews have been told by supervisors to break into cabinets because they are not issued with or have lost keys and there is no replacement. Breaking into a cabinet represents at least 20min of dangerous toil physically jamming objects into the metal cabinet, and prizing it open and inserting a hand to open the lock from the inside, if a cabinet ejects the wedged object the hand will be trapped inside, possible finger amputation. Sometimes 6 cabs in a day are broken into by a crew without a key. It represents a waste of time and lost income for the crew and a huge cost to Virgin through replacement and subsequent vandalism through security breaches.
- Krone/ SID/ pouyet tools are used to connect telco into IDC strips, While waiting for an ordered ‘Kroner’ that never came, the only alternative was to use a screw driver, which seriously disfigures the strip, rendering it inoperable, or worse partly operable causing untold faults in the network.
- Disposable hand wipes and gloves are vital in the fight against Leptospirosis disease which is caused by rat urine found in the underground ducting network. This disease can kill a healthy engineer in less than a week, yet from November 06 to Jan 07 at least one franchise had no access to these sanitary wipes. Customers also experienced smudged dirty walls where engineers working outside came inside to work on sockets. Material gloves are hard to come by and I have yet to be given the option of latex type dry gloves.
- Our vans are the most important equipment we have but we are often given vans that don’t work in the way that they are supposed to, at the moment I have had a van for around a month where the rear compartment does not open. I am forced to use the passenger seat as a space for tools and consumables, this is not only unhygienic, messy and dangerous, it poses a security risk where valuable items may tempt a break-in
- Out of 3 van’s I have had, the radios in 2 never worked, sometimes it would be a simple thing such as the fleet department giving security codes, no matter how much a fix is requested, it never happens.
- After 2 attempts at ordering, I have still not received my full virgin uniform due to pilfering among the ranks. The first uniform delivery I had received contained about half of what was ticked on the paperwork, so I have ordered a second lot which has been received, this time only missing the safety boots, (also ticked as sent).
Avonline’s Accountability is a sham
With the attendance part of wages being 2 weeks in arrears, and the productivity part being 6 weeks in arrears, keeping payroll and managers “promise payments” to account would be hard but to make it almost impossible there is no accounting for individual jobs or even full days on the performance (or any) section of engineers pay slips, six weeks after the jobs are complete there is simply a lump sum shown to account for the sum of jobs completed 6 weeks ago. As I will explain, getting details over the phone almost always fails leading to great frustration.
Grievances
Grievances and complaints about anything are almost always (wages, fines, bullying) quashed by a combination of red tape, ignorance and lost opportunities through the time restrictions of the default lifestyle imposed on technicians. To add to this is the lack of help the HR department is.
HR Department
Despite having around 600 employees HR department of Avonline have one phone line open only between 1-3pm Monday to Friday, that’s 10 hours of shared availability, leaving each employee only 1 minute per week to voice their concerns, 5mins per month, and about 48min per year. Realistically it can take that years ‘quota’ 48ish min to sort just one problem out. To make matters even worse is HR does not reply to voicemails received outside of the 1-3 time-slot. With their resources It is sadly no wonder that HR are so rushed, vacant, and never like to admit they have the authority to talk about fines, wages, deductions, and other general employment related matters. The favoured method of HR to deflect action is to refer employees to other rushed managers and consequently more voice mails with no reply. With the demands on engineers being greatest in the day time, the small window to talk to HR is usually is spanned by a single installation and is almost always missed. As a consequence engineers simply give up trying to fight for their wages that have been owed, fines they don’t agree with, and other concerns – there is simply just no-one to talk to.
General communication
As a general theme, there is no one to turn to and no easy way to notify of days off (including notifying of intention to work a 5 day only week). Text messages are deemed unacceptable, verbal is not acceptable, and written messages are not acceptable without a signature of a manager, a manager will rarely authorise a day off; therefore any day off which an employee takes on his own incurs disciplinary action. Holidays can’t be taken without a franchise manager’s approval. I don’t presently have a franchise manager, I am sent from site to site so that no-one claims to be my manager, and the site that I am at mostly has had no manager for months as he has resigned and not been replaced. Avonline has lengthened the holiday notice period from 2 weeks to 4 weeks but I still have no option of taking them because there is no procedure to notify.
Virgin Media SPECIFIC ISSUES
Although most of this letter is aimed at showing Avonline’s practices as making life hard for engineers, it is not only Avonline. Sometimes Virgin Media’s policies and practices can be almost as frustrating. The biggest is that the Virgin Ethos does not shine through at all. Coverage of the happy staff who employed by Virgin is all over the media. If Virgin Media are such a great company, how can they contract another company with such low human rights? Other shortfalls in Virgin Operations make it hard.
- When run sheets/ routing paperwork fails to come down, this can delay the start of a whole franchise by 2 hours, and it still happens.
- The antiquated work orders system(s).There are so many systems for managing work that they rarely work alone, let alone together. When an engineer gets to an address, in approximately 50% of cases the work order will be wrong. SMS sheets never have V+ as a native option so it needs to be written in the notes section, in some cases it’s written in ink by a supervisor and a lot of cases it’s missed as it’s a big room for error. The work will either have to be re-scheduled, or the engineer will be even more pressed for time because he wasn’t aware of the task. In a lot of cases stores will not issue equipment unless it is actually on the work order. This means an engineer has to go back across the franchise to the depot to get more equipment possibly wasting an hour of his time. If the job fails the onus is on the engineer.
- Contact detailsMost phone numbers on SMS work orders are completely wrong or fabricated, and in some cases the engineers do not have any way to contact customers to pre call or warn of schedule changes or to check if the customer is home at all.
- No pre calling leads to time wasted on NBI’s (No body In)Most days are okay but on some days it seems that no customers were aware of the appointment and were definitely not pre called. This can waste the engineers time driving to a failed job and infuriate the customer.
- Analogue and digital hit delays waste hours of time because engineers are not allowed to leave boxes unhit.
- Sales people often promise things that engineers can’t realistically do. Sometimes promises are written in the notes section of the work orders; sometimes in the worst cases nothing is written leaving the angry customer to explain the promise.
- Timeslots: Sales people seem to think that engineers can do anything, and often tell customers that an engineer can com at an exact time instead of the 2 timeslots. With the amount of jobs engineers do, it is impossible to do the jobs out of order, attempting will just make the day run longer and make other appointments late.
- Tall stories: Sales people telling customers or inferring that we install wiring in wall cavities or that our broadband is wireless, leads to customers calling virgin to complain before work can even start, infuriating customers, wasting engineers time.
Virgin’s physical network
As a whole the virgin network is an absolute sham, it is hard to work on, faulty, un-maintained and inconsistent.
- Grossly insufficient information about multiplexer and cabinet locations.If an engineer does not know his area he can drive around for 45min just to find a cabinet or a mux that either has no location information for it or the information is totally wrong, and it is so simple to fix.
- No ID Label on equipment.In some franchises the cabinets and mux’ have NO ID label Identifying them causing the engineer to have to park dangerously in multiple locations in the area, to open up and test the wiring for a phone number, and then call T,P&R Nottingham just to find out which mux he is at. This should be never a standard practice and the people at the call centre are seldom understanding of it. If the mux’ were labelled it would save this trouble.
- Grossly Insufficient labelling systems inside cabinets/Mux’In almost ALL mux’ and cabinets there are absolutely no labels to identify which of the thousands of pairs of wires is the right one. An engineer has to guess a pattern and test the wires, if he is wrong he has to call TP&R to find how far out he is, and adjust his pattern. There is too many different franchises with too many different patterns to learn. Some don’t even comply with a pattern. All this and so much time could be saved by labelling the pairs.
- TP&R have no Idea of network schematics.Many cabs feed from the one mux, but schematics of which wire physically connects to which cab is unavailable. If the wire provisioned to the engineer is dead, the engineer has no way of knowing the range of wires available for alternate routing.
- Un-necessary jumpering due to programming and database shortfalls.
Here’s one that definitely wastes thousands of man hours per day nationally.Sometimes inactive houses are not connected to the exchange so an engineer is needed to physically connect the house to the exchange. Other times a customer moves into a house from a previous subscriber (i.e. the house is connected to the exchange by wires already). The simple thing to do would be for TP&R to just disconnect the old number remotely and reconnect the new number using the same details, call the customer to confirm it all works then call an engineer if there are problems. But no, every single time, an engineer is physically called out to change wires to different jumpers. It’s the equivalent of putting a lamp into a different power socket every time it needs to be used.EXAMPLES OF CUSTOMER’S EXPERIENCES
- Engineers arriving lateThe most common thing a customer will experience is an engineer turning up on the doorstep behind the scheduled timeslot, this is due to the culmination of many of errors of judgement by many parties but the easiest fix for this will not be implemented, and that is to employ more engineers. This won’t happen because Avonline is so tight, and if they did, the current engineers would make even less money because they are completing less addresses, and they would have to pay more per address. This does not help customers who have taken the day off work to wait for an engineer.
- Tasks not completed.Because engineers are so stretched, anything that is not expressly written on the job sheet will not be done, regardless of what it is or how crucial it is, and how much a customer begs. An engineer will not be payed to complete any extra task, and with this happening 2 or 3 times per day, and some tasks taking an hour, it would be unreasonable to expect that he should. This will never sit well with customers, because a customer sees red, and a virgin logo, not a tired overworked engineer. The problem exists between the formatting of the worksheets. This could easily be fixed by pre-calling a customer from rendered work sheets instead of the back office systems, and a pre-visit to confirm locations of services.
- Not informed of date and time.After booking a fault or service, sometimes a customer is told to wait for a confirmation of date, which never comes – but the engineer certainly does, often when the customer isn’t home, thereby rendering the appointment a big waste of time and leaving the customer to book (and wait for) another appointment. This could be fixed by pre-calling all customers.
- Told liesSometimes a sales person will tell all kinds of half truths to get a sale, often about the way in which the installation will take place, sometimes that the wires will be hidden, sometimes that the broadband is wireless, in most case, they are left to argue with the engineer. Calls should be recorded and reports should be routinely investigated and pre-visits to confirm installation locations.
- Engineers are unco-operative.A seasoned engineer can talk his way out of just about any task that a customer would like to set for him, often to make the installation as easy as possible, there are so many excuses to not to do an installation as planned if it is harder than the norm. If all installations were pre-visited and measured jobs could be weighed and payed accordingly, engineers would have no excuses and they would do tasks because they are rewarded.
- Work messyAn engineer who has 12 jobs to complete, is not going to complete them without sacrificing a large amount on quality. Customers always complain about this, and often even if an engineer is normally careful, he won’t have a choice in a big day. The fix for this is more staff, less jobs, so simple, will it happen?
- Service can’t go in (wrong crew called)This happens more often than most think: a 1 man crew is called when there are absolutely no cables in the property, or sometimes even the street. Whether this is an administration or systems problem, it is annoying for the customer involved, who then has to wait for construction, and then a 2 man crew, which could take a month. Sometimes an installation can never go in there. A pre-visit would fix this problem for sure.
- Services not workingSometimes no matter what an engineer does, there is just no way he can get a service to work in the time that he has. Analogue boxes with hit delays will never work because they need to be re-tuned when they do get hit, automatically needing another visit, this problem could be fixed by classifying network problems and paying engineers accordingly.
- No one turning up
- One of the most frustrating things for customers is no-one turning up. This can happen when a customer is last on an engineer’s route and delays happen. Often the customer’s phone number is wrong, so any attempt to warn them fails. More engineers and phone checks would solve this problem.
WHY ENGINEERS CAN NEVER WIN
Blind managed expectations
Both Virgin and Avonline have ways of measuring engineer’s success; Virgin is interested in the individual’s quality, and Avonline are more interested in one’s productivity. It is in the interest of no-one, or indeed have I heard of one dedicated person in Avonline or Virgin Media to measure working conditions or to ensure an engineer’s wellbeing, this has led to the widespread discordance, bullying, and suffering. To check objective quality Virgin measures customer complaints, as well as that Virgin parties are sent out with crews on some days to conduct sight checks but this ensures chaos with productivity because realistically only about 50% of jobs even get completed when a crew is 100% on quality being watched by an auditor. On the other hand, goals for productivity are measured by Avonline supervisors on benchmarks of the most ‘productive’ engineers but the quality of the productive engineers are really taken into account on the same measurement, so unrealistic expectations are prolific and the source of constant failure. Virgin Media rewards those who “lash it in”.
This industry penalizes good work (because it takes far too long).No reward for good work
Neither Avonline nor Virgin Media has one statutory measurable bonus or award of quality success or achievement. As a result, anything that goes wrong in the field in the above list, or any other hold up will cause failure. If an engineer has already cash incentives to work as fast as he can, working any faster will cause lost tools, accidents, and dangerous, often illegal corner cutting. There really is nothing else that he can do to complete his given (not chosen) route than to lower the quality of his work. This too will cause failure, failure on a QC (and a fine), failure in his morals, failure to please a customer who he is face to face with (not somewhere down the telephone line). So if an engineer fails his manager on completion rate, fails his customers on quality, fails his family on time and providing for them, this becomes an increasing burden on his sense of self worth leading him into a tailspin of working harder to try and please these unrealistic demands, and becoming a source of conflict to anyone (customers, managers, colleagues, family) who try to ask more of him than he can provide. In effect this good willed engineer has become someone completely different than he set out to be. He can no longer call himself a professional, has no chance of getting a good employment reference, has no confidence to apply for other jobs, and is stuck in a cycle of failure. Failure that (for what it’s worth) still makes Avonline PLC a lot of profit.
No Voice
What essentially happens is the voices of thousands of technicians are never heard because such fiercely enforced time constraints and beaurocracy deprive techs of vital communication opportunities to the people that can even make a difference. Deprived of communication techs are abused, mistreated, and suffer in silence, we have no recourse to unfair wage deductions, no proper formal discipline or chance to rebut disciplinary proceedings. Deprived of communication customers are left with equipment that will never work and will cost the company more fixing their mistakes.
My future now
I came from Australia to England under a 1 year working holiday visa (2 year stay) to enhance my already broad technological background, gain respect in the industry, and be sponsored to continue working in the UK. I saw that NTL would combine most parts of my existing experience in customer service, computer programming, installations and logistics. Things at work were hard from the start, but I thought that it was because I was a new face and would have to prove myself. I knew it was a productivity based job, and I was determined to and got faster but I didn’t know that I would face conditions that would make progress in my work situation impossible. The worst thing is that I have no prospect of achieving my plans now because I was trapped working for a company that took all from its employees and gave nothing back. I have almost run out of time to prove myself to any other prospective employer. I got out of bed every morning and went to work: longer and harder, because I believed week on week that it would get better. Sadly after 9 months I can see that all my given time and energy has gone to Avonline’s bottom line and I have achieved effectively nothing for myself apart from gaining a strong lesson to tell others. I haven’t even seen Europe. In my zeal I haven’t even had a day’s booked holiday – my working Holiday was all work, and no holiday – It didn’t pay off.
I still believe that Virgin is a good company, and I would like to continue to work for Virgin if I had the choice, but in the current position that I am in, under the current management that I am under, seeing that I am wasting my time, burning myself out for a wage that is barely legal, and receiving no recognition for my efforts or skill. I can no longer continue as is, and face the failure and setback of starting again. Definitely the most negative force in this situation is simply Avonline PLC, and would never want to have anything to do with them again, but this is not just my experience; I have been working for Avonline for 9 months in 4 franchises in South London, Surrey and Hampshire, and Reading and write this on behalf of all my fellow employees who are in the same situation as me – as I believe most are. I hope you are able to do something to improve their conditions but unless you intervene for me and help me put myself on the right track that I deserve to be on, I will never have a chance of a future or lasting ties with Virgin – or England. I believe I will still go on to great things, but I will have to find another way.

January 18th, 2008 at 2:17 am
Open Letter – a response from Mark Wynn,
Managing Director, Avonline plc
I read with
concern this morning the letter posted on 14th January from a
current/ex Avonline member of staff. Contained within the detailed letter,
there are a number of recurring themes regarding the terms and conditions of employment
with Avonline and the standards and working practices that we expect of our teams.
As a
company that has provided engineering resource into the telecoms and media
sector since 1981, we strive to ensure that we can deliver competitive service
excellence to our customer base in what is certainly a very competitive market
place. As such, the welfare of our 850 staff is the most important factor in
how successful we are in delivering those services to our customers.
Following a
consultation exercise within our Consumer team in 2006, the standard contract
of employment which we adopted in January 2007 chose the route of a structured
basic pay plus additional performance incentives. This was generally preferred
to the prevailing industry approach of 100% piece-work pay. Our pay structure has an entry level grade for
a new trainee and then increases by 16%, usually in the first year through two performance
based grades for a rota’d five day week and a target
of 6 jobs per day.
The
training and equipping of our staff is based around standardised technical and
Health and Safety training and the issuing of a comprehensive set of equipment
and personal protective equipment per crew/vehicle. As a business accredited to
ISO 9001 for Quality and OHSAS 18001 for Health and Safety, our own
requirements for checking the completeness and use of issued equipment is often
supported by independent audits by our customers. This provides a robust
mechanism for ensuring that both the company and the individual are meeting the
standards required of each of them. In addition, our regional warehouses are
situated to facilitate the issuing and replacement of equipment on an as
required basis
With a
workforce that is predominantly mobile, our centralised teams such a Human
Resources, Fleet and Procurement are organised to provide an appropriate and
consistent level of service to our teams throughout the UK. As such, many of
the statements included within the letter do not actually reflect either the
operating procedures or standards of these groups.
However,
and most importantly, if the standards that we set and the way in which we seek
to achieve them are either not applied consistently or, more commonly, are not clearly understood
by all of our staff then we have failed in some respect as a business.
I would
openly welcome the opportunity to discuss each of the points raised with you on
a one to one basis. In doing so I hope that I will be able to demonstrate the
passion and commitment that both myself and the wider management team of
Avonline apply each and every day in the pursuit of remaining one the UK’s
leading Installation businesses.
January 19th, 2008 at 12:49 pm
Sounds like a pretty poor state of affairs but having taken the time to read your letter in full it sounds like you should’ve entitled your letter ‘Open Letter To CEO of Avonline’.
Its sounds like the couldn’t organise a handjob in a brothel and that they’re more interested in making money than looking after their staff or providing delivering the quality of service virgin are paying them for.
If I was you, I’d leave while you still have time to do what you set out to do orginally and if I was Richard Branson I’d kick avonline into touch before they damage virgin’s reputation any more!!
Good Luck
January 28th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
After reading the above its the same in most of the contracters with Vm Kellys ,Map the training is poor if any techs waiting for tools .What these companies need to to is to get the big bods to do a surprise visit and see what goes on but they will never do this .A long time ago we used to do a surprise visit on the techs and check tools and kit any missing we gave them 1 week to get new tools or be fined .I feel that vm need to get the big stick out and hit the contracter where it hutrs in there pocket but we all know that they will pass this on to the techs .When will they get it the installer is the most important person so get this right then you are on a wining streak .
January 28th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I completely feel for you. Best of luck with everything, and let’s hope this can be sorted.
January 31st, 2008 at 11:13 am
i work for avonline and agree
February 5th, 2008 at 1:53 am
I work for avonline and think you got it spot on. I think the worst part is that there is no transparency with wages. Everything is hidden andcovered under different titles so that it is impossible to see if you are being paid correctley. Im pretty sure that we are regulary robbed of productivity and overtime as we never get the right wages at the right time and are just told to wait. If i do work fot you you should pay me, how hard is that??? I had the big presentation when Virgin took over, shiny video , shiney new uniform and blatant lies about how things were gonna be so much better now, a year latter and what? worse off by a mile.
WE just dont believe what you tell us anymore.
February 7th, 2008 at 3:52 am
Laurei,
You’ve obviously had a bad time since your fisrt start in cable.
Did you not think that it might not be the job for you… the second time you had to do the basic training course?
Tom,
Surely your ‘in house’ now?
Mark,
Still up at silly o’clock in the morning I see..
Best Regards,
Dave
February 19th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
hi i work for avonlive and they are a bunch a mother fu*ng wanker and thay have f**ed with the wrong person this time f*k you all you scum bag’s
February 19th, 2008 at 3:28 pm
hello i workkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk for avonline and thay suck i carnt wait to get another job the pay sucks the hours we do are f***g mental avonline suck 6 jobs my assssssss you get 8-9 or 10 a day and i tell you what the standerd or my work omg cuz i aint got the time to fart sh**ty i hate it here and ide love to kick some avonline scum shitt a*s there all a bunch of twats give it 2 weeks and ill have hit some 1 in avonline managers are c**nts g*y f**g knobs ill get my REVENGE HAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA
February 27th, 2008 at 10:39 am
I Also work for avonline, have for the past two years. Avonline have definitely ALOT worse since they have taken the contract with virgin media. Avonline are pileing too much work on the lads 8/9 jobs aday.. And they wonder why we fail audits / get complaits. Also personally I dont even have time for a lunch break whatsoever during the day, they really need to sort this out.
Also when Avonline had the changeover, I thought we could CHOOSE how many jobs we could do depending on salary ( 6jobs basic ).
I really hope avonline can sort these problems out, because the team managers dont give two sh*ts.
February 28th, 2008 at 3:14 pm
Congratulations.You’re right. This working condition does actually happen every day of the week. With all the conditions of working conditions of lunch breaks etc, yes they all go out the window when time means money, thats just for the basic wage.Yes we too in the midlands have exactly the same frustrations, and you have written in fine detail what genuinly happens. To the customer or outsider– no-one would believe this type of stressed work schedule goes on in this day and age. The workers are burnt out and working under intolerable stressed conditions. The turnover of staff is high, people get out rather than trying to cope or change the situation.
I too emailed Richard Branson as I too was worried about negative opinion of the service by customers, and health and safety issues of the workers. The efficient response was made within a couple of hours and directed to take situations / problems through HR. It needs more than 1 person to take this situation forward. It needs change,for the better, so workers can feel as though they have done a fair days work without the stress,and enjoy their work.
March 5th, 2008 at 6:04 am
My fella is overworked at Avonline, leaving at 7.30 and getting home after 7pm! Too many jobs, rubbish money, no break and don’t even get me started on the f**k up of his productivity/wages every week!
I am surprised he has stuck it i suggest the managing director stops breaking the law on working over 48 hours and sorts this mess out!
March 25th, 2008 at 2:49 am
Mothaf*cking avonline is the worst company I ever worked for and i am glad i’d left and disconnected few of the VIP customers in revenge so they can put a fat complaint on them bunch of sla*s! HA
March 26th, 2008 at 8:44 am
my husband used to work for avonline until he left because of the stress of it and them constantly f**king up his wages and when you have a mortgage and 2 kids to support how are you supposed to do it on the pennies they pay you you cant, and then you get yourself into debt trying to live there is no way that you should have to use savings to pay bills when your supposes to be on good money we had to a number of times and came close to splitting up because of it our divorce papers would have said avonline. my hubby has a new job which is a lot better and they dont treat there staff like s**t. Avonline are breaking the law at every angle the health and safety is the one it like by law you are only aloud to use a ladder as a form of access so why are they made to work of one and if your not trained at heights there breaking the law my husband wasnt trained at heights so if he fell who would get the blame it would have been him for using them. they are a bunch of f**kig b*****ds and we hope they rot.
March 30th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Will anyone come to Avonline’s defense?
April 14th, 2008 at 6:02 am
I have worked for avonline for a couple of years now and yes, i too worked long hours. However. once you grasp the job and are effiecient at what you do then the hours get shorter even with 8/9 jobs.
My average day starts in the yard at seven and finish, i’d say at 3. i am never , yes never, home after 5 oclock.
I dont stop for lunch but i do nibble throughout the day on sandwiches brought from home.
Pay has been an issue a couple of times but there are points of contact to get in touch as soon as you realise there is a problem and the majority of the time its sorted immediately. As long as you fill in the paperwork correctly there should not be a problem.
Avonline do fine staff for poor work, but there is no reason to do poor work. its not hard to do what i do but some people are lazy and have the wrong attitude, as you can see on other posts!
In this industry, there are no set hours but people are well aware of this in their first day of work.
I enjoy what i do and have respect for avonline and their manages. If employees have a problem maybe they should focus on resolving it with their manages instead of taking it out in their work which ultimately jeopardises Avonline, virgin media and an innocent customer.
April 14th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Hi,
I myself work for a part of this scenario, but would rather not say, (not an avonline manager btw) and this is horrific reading, i hope they sort this for you guys asap, maybe a strike would work ? as i am sure you are all treated the same from the sound of it, all the best for the future you guys
April 15th, 2008 at 1:43 am
i work in the FMC (faults for virgin) we’re the same, substandard tools to do our job and double standards from higher-ups on all fronts hindering progression, outsourced to adecco and off-shore to puna in india, we spend more time dealing with complaints than fixing faults (about 50% of calls coming into this center not relating to a fault). We get conflict between performance indicator’s that tell us to follow procedure to the letter and quality coaches telling us we need to “think outside of the box” causing stats to be at odds with each other, 0 communication between people who sit next to each other, the only way to communicate with certain people is via email which is more often deleted than read. all in all a sorry state of affairs for virg
April 16th, 2008 at 3:18 am
This sums them up. they are the pits of an employer. Complete shambles and a discrace to the Virgin brand. More people need to expose them for what they are. My Cousin had to leave them for the same reasons after they sucked all the goodwill out of him.
f**king discrace, should be F**king ashamed of themselves I hope this becomes public knowledge and they are finally brought to account for the complete bunch of inept, immoral, illegal, corrupt employers they are.
April 17th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Avonline
Treats its workers with discontempt. Poor wages and poor working conditions .
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:46 am
i WORK FOR KELLY AND WE GET FINISHED AT AROUND 3PMM EVERY DAY AND NEVER HAVE WAGE PROBLEMS, GREAT SITE AND COMPANY FEEL SORRY FOR YOU LOT AT AVONLINE
April 23rd, 2008 at 12:26 pm
i ALSO WORK FOR AVONLINE,HAD ENOUGH OF THIS SH*T TO MANY JOBS NOT ENOUGH PAY, WOULD BE BETTER OFF ON MIN WAGE FOR SET HOURS,MARK WYNN COULDNT GIVE A SH*T WHAT WE THINK AS LONG AS HE GETS HIS BIG WAGE PACKET,AVONLINE SHOULD REVIEW THE WAGE PACKET OR THEY WILL BE FACEING THEMSELVES WITH A STRIKE,IM SURE VIRGIN MEDIA COULDNT AFFORD FOR THAT TO HAPPEN AND WILL LOOK ELSE WHERE FOR CONTRACTORS WHO CAN FIND WAYS OF BOOSTING STAFF MORALE.
April 23rd, 2008 at 3:48 pm
As far as strike action is concerned, you know you are all screwed. Avonline has so many sites that it’s not hard for for them to just call workers from another site. That’s exactly what happened at the strike at Crawley in Surrey, while it does hurt Avonline, they obviously make so much from their shoddy practices that they must think they can afford the dissension. Lets face it, people are too selfish(or so tired at the end of the day) that they don’t want to work that little bit harder to organise themselves, let alone join a union. I (and probably thousands of people) have got OUT of it a long time ago, but I keep watching this because to me its, it’s just such a strange beast – it’s is in the perfect position to suck all the goodness from an industry and faces no consequences. I really hope Virgin does something about them, but I suppose to Virgin they are very effective on paper, it’s just like Nike and the sweatshops. Until Virgin Media is held accountable they won’t ask for MORAL quality from their contractors.
But still I watch, I’m ready to act, just like alot of people, but there needs to be a good plan, and I may be not that bright.
April 24th, 2008 at 12:55 am
I’m a TSC manager and I’m sick of fending off complaints about offshore call centres. They haven’t a clue when it comes to technical issues (e.g. one referred the customer to their PC vendor when it was an outage in the area) and they don’t do callbacks that they promise – half my day is spent doing THEIR callbacks instead of spending time with MY team. Apparently this is all down to some crappy contract that NTL had with IBM so they can’t get rid of these gawd-awful centres in India. When I worked on Blueyonder things were great – we had all UK call centres and complaints were few and far between. If Virgin Media really want to push their super fast broadband, get rid of the crappy offshore call centres, take the financial hit from IBM and let the people in the UK centres handle tech support. Do your customers a favour – they’ll love you for it.
April 28th, 2008 at 8:27 am
I worked for Telewest in the sales department until I was (gladly) made redundant in 2004. Telewest was always a shambles, from top to bottom. Front line staff (like me) who didn’t care, back office staff who were incompetent and management that could only see statistics and were only ever looking out for their own highly paid jobs. it doesn’t surprise me that things remain the same under the Virgin brand, nor the quite blatant cowboy practices of their contractors. How can a company get away with this sort of behaviour for so many, many years?
April 29th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I love Avonline.
April 30th, 2008 at 10:18 am
disgusting!
May 3rd, 2008 at 8:38 am
im glad to say avonline have been told to f**k off from birmingham and Midlands. Let hope MAP are a bit better
May 5th, 2008 at 2:54 am
I worked for avonline in swansea. Every week someone would walk off the job and never return. At first I thought it was them being over the top and not giving it a fair go. But I soon felt the same myself.
Yes you get 8 9 jobs a day but its the helping all the other guys that pissed me off, staying out til 8 at night doing other guys jobs.
every time i see a cable sticking out the ground it reminds me of the 6 day 50/60 hr weeks.
Better off cleaning toilets than working for mr wynn’s rip off Avonline.
May 7th, 2008 at 9:23 am
I sympathise with everything you say but ask yourself why you have to do this, There is a couple of contractors out there using the IR35 tax scam to under cut the others (techs get a basic plus expenses to avoid tax and NI) now Virgin Media know this (ask the GMBWU) but insist on using the lowest priced contractor, It is illegal and its the techs themselves who will have to fit any Tax Bill, Virgin are trying to distance themselves using the IE we dont employ them so we dont care, it wont wash as they know and are promoting this scam by pushing more work to those breaking the law, I see some one from Kellys saying how they dont have problems, you will when the Tax man gets you, What will Virgin do because of this open letter, Shut Avonline down and move to those ripping off the Taxman
May 8th, 2008 at 10:41 am
WAHAY!!! BIRMINGHAM ARE FREE FROM AVONLINE AND LOST 60% OF THERE BUISNESS IVE READ MAPS CONTRACT NOT GREAT BUT 100 TIMES THAT OF AVONLINES. THEY LOST THE CONTRACT DOWN TO COMPLAINTS DUE TO WORKERS BEING RUSHED AND PAID THE BARE MINIMUM WAGE. I HOPE IF AVONLINE DO GET ANOTHER VIRGIN CONTRACT THEY OFFER BETTER WAGES AND BETTER WORKING CONDITIONS
May 9th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Just got offered a job with kellys (VIRGIN MEDIA) to work in south london. I am reading a lot of bad things about them and now i’m in two minds whether to take the job or. Can anyone tell me (those who work for kellys)if i should go ahead or stick to my present job. will i learn the trade correctly and can will i make money with them .
May 11th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Guys you need to give MR wynn a break, yes its his company, yes he is responcible for what goes on but if you think that Avonline make loads of money they your sadly miskaken. what you all fail to remember is that 90% of engineers have there own Vans of which 89% have some kind of damage on them vans go in for estimates with most of the time £3000 worth of damage and no cant be claimed back by insurance. this is where all the money goes, also you guys learning how to use drills would be of an advantage, maybe then he wont have to fork out for 5 bricks every time you decide to ruin some old boys house. half of you lot leave because you owe avonline too much money anyway and what is the answer to all of this? take your time and be careful dont cause damage then you wont have to pay it back. stop gobbing off about things that you have some kind of influence over.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:39 am
Well I have worked for avonline for4 years now all I can say is lets see if its better now map or kellys have it as one day it will be avonline and the next day maps /kellys with the same techs and one or 2 poor managers .What u have to relise is we lost the sites due to not hitting the 4 areas given to us 3 months ago and we only failed on the conplaint’s area which if Im right is down to the techs being lazy so if the blame is with anyone its with the poor techs we have.Ask the old techs at surrey who went to kellys last year I know of only 3 left from when I was there.You only finish late if you are not very good at the job so why not find another one no one is keeping u there.
May 12th, 2008 at 9:58 am
i have worked for avonline for the last two and a half yrs and never had a problem with the company.Any wage problems i have had in the past was always sorted out stright away paying me what iam owed. Now having the avanced wage slip system makes it so much easier for techs, so if a slip up does happen with your wages action can be taken stright away to to make sure money owing is there when wages is due.
I aggree with the statement above in regards to why avonline lost the area due to poor techs who were warned of the four areas. have a nice life working for map or kellys {life is always greener on the other side } lets see if the stats remain as good as the last three months
Dont forget you have to pay up to £1,000 excess on van damage. lets see how long you stay with these companies
May 12th, 2008 at 10:36 am
lets just say to all you shoddy techs that you lost avonline the areas with your poor installs if you were unhappy why did you not leave or is it your crap and you cann’t get another job
why work for them if it was that bad kellys and maps the same if you think pay is better at map and kellys I would get your mummy or daddy to add it for you as the pay is the same you idiots
have fun with the deductions they will give you
my ass its not up to the local managers as I worked for map as well u will be worse off suckers
May 12th, 2008 at 10:43 am
A message to MAP/KELLYS u think you will do better than avonline think again same poor techs and a couple of poor managers by swapping names is not going to work lets see how long u keep it Watching for your figures and I will post on here every month good luck
May 15th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
since starting for avonline i carnt c were any of u are coming from my time at avonline as been nothing more than briliant my wages are ther in my bank every friday and it is the exact amount sometimes more , my bosses have always been honest with me and the guy who offerd me the job (my boss) we have a good repoor with one another my vans brand new i have all the tools i could ever need and stores is run properly and has everything we need , its sad that some of u feel this way avonline is a fantastic company i love my job an allways have plenty of money for me and my famialy .
May 15th, 2008 at 9:33 pm
Happy with you Sir IRS engineer, enough money for your family, everything you need, they must look after you, I would imagine there wouldn’t be too many IRS Engineers in Avonline so they can’t really cattleyard you like they do to the Virgin crew as you’re reporting to the project manager directly, not a line of 6 managers spanning the nation. And then there’s the pressure of Virgin Media’s bosses you just don’t have to deal with. Like comparing peas and nuts really but hey – they treat you good that’s awesome!
May 19th, 2008 at 10:07 am
you all live in a dream world you all think the grass is greener. you are sadly mistaken, i hope you all find that out one day.
Have fun you w*kers!!!
June 5th, 2008 at 11:13 am
My uncle worked for avonline for ages even through the switch over from telewest to virgin or what ever it was and i had heard him grumble bout it and he was one of the lucky ones who gt made redundant.
I met my boyfriend then found out they actually worked together. The times he would come see me telling me how shit avonline was, the hours were terrible he would get home bout 7/ half 7 ish so would get to see me bout half 8 ish but have to leave early to get to the yard early in the mornin just to fart around while everyone was either fighting over the routes, stock or the coffee machine. We Had Several Nights When He Did Not Finish Till Bout 11 Due To Some One Getting Held Back on Jobs And Managers Roping Who Ever They Could In To Do The Job.
The pay was a compleate fuck over and the managers/teamleaders would promise money for favours, money that would never be seen.
The pay slips were more confusing then the actual jobs, there was always deducions for summat unnecessary.
Then Birmingham avonline lost the contract and i thought that would be the end of all the whinging. Then along came kellys, only been a couple of days and hes stayin positive going on about the good things, however, i have heard alot of down sides about kellys so im not looking forward to whats going to be comming out of this one but only time will tell. Lets hope kelly doesn’t end up another Avonline!
June 28th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Totally agree 100% Percent with this post!
He has summarised everything wrong with working for avonline, every experience he’s had. I have done personally. When I refused to do bad work – My pay was hit severly!
Do not – Take a job with these cowboy’s. It took me 6 months and I burnt out and had to see a psychiatrist! Lost my girlfriend! 6 Points on my liscence! No opportunities to do a damn thing about it!
I was screwed at every turn!
Whoever wrote this post – Thank you from the bottom of my heart! I am glad it is out in the open now! I hope you will become a great success!
July 9th, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Personally I dont work on the Virgin Contract but I do work for Avonline. Due to the nature of my job I hear about the Virgin contract day in/day out and I’m more than aware that there are people out there having problems.
The thing is we have teams here who are happy to help if you do have a problem. There are always people who will help you when you have an issue with a customer/wages.
I deal with the TM’s and if one of them come to me with an issue its resolved within a day at the most. You will also find this is the same if you approach people in Finance/HR or Fleet we are all happy to help, regardless of rank in the company.
Avonlines techs do a damn good job if there perpaired to put the effort in and things do get easier but is does take time. You cant expect to come in to a company and know everything straight away thats why the hours are so long but when you do get used to the work and you will find that you get through things quicker.
Anyway goodluck to Avonline and its employees.
July 9th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
This is not fair on Avonline. I could respond to each comment made and rubbish them just as easily as they were originally made.
I think the main point I would like to make is that I know for a fact that Avonline make a tiny profit out of the Virgin contract due to the margins they are forced to work under by VM.
the only contractor that is considered a good payer is one that uses a tax loophole to pay their staff, but this has side effects in that they cannot use their full salaries when trying for mortgages / pensions etc.
In my experience Avonline are a very good employer and they do try their best for their staff, but they are limited in what they can pay, by what they are paid themselves. They would love to pay their VM techs £25,000 a year for a 38 hour working week, but they would go bust in a week.
If VM want top quality techs they should pay for them, not keep squeezing the margins down.
Then again, if people want to pay vitually no install fee when getting virgin then they’ll have to put up with the installers they get.
the install fee for Sky is far above that of VM, but I know from friends experince that their techs are paid no better and if anything worked harder.
Good luck Avonline and Virgin Media – you do your best in a hard market.
July 9th, 2008 at 11:36 pm
Summary: Thanks everyone for reading the rather long, complex, but honest letter I put before you; thank you more if you commented – including the pro Avonline boys who made it seem like an actual debate (by posting from the same ip address under different names).
Let me put this bluntly, some people are right Avonline, Cobra, and Kelly’s are no different than any other company out there today, they corporate entitites looking out for their shareholders in a competitive environment and corporations exist to make money – that is all, I just expected there to be human “people” in these corporations who would go the extra mile to make sure they were not inadvertantly f*cking another humans life over for a £ or to hold on to their “stats” – I at least expected there to be management somewhat protective of those who tried to do a good, (complete) job despite the conditions – even if they didn’t get their hands dirty themselves.
I say this is absolutely your own fault citizens – it comes down to this: you complain about everything and don’t do a thing about it because you’re too busy f*cklng around living your own lives to realise that you could stick together, make a personal sacrifice and see change through for the benefit of everybody. As a workforce or a group of consumers you are weak, pathetic, and couldn’t organize a p155 up in a brewery. You are going to get F*ck1ng trodden on in the latter part of this century just like you did when they lorded it over you before. Good luck, I’m out of here.
As for the UK I hope you all catch the rage virus and eat eachother until you go hungry and starve. Just like a ‘B’ grade movie I saw recently.
Comments are closed, any updates will be when Mark Wynn, Richard Branson, or Neil Berkett actually contact me with some developments of what’s changing, if you have anything to say that’s not already been said, feel free to contact me.